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  • #16
    Correct. When water is injected, the vapourisation of the water requires energy, heat in this case, the absorbtion of heat by doing this reduces combution temps therefore lowering the risk of detonation or pre-ignition allowing higher boost, compression, more advanced timing etc, in other words more power. I personally never liked the idea. I can't imagine all the moisure leaving via the exhaust. Some of it must end up in the oil. If moisture does build up in the oil then as the oil and water cool, acids will be formed. Crank bearings dont like acid.

    One of the good things about nitrous that I learned years ago is that when it vapourises after being under 1000psi its temperature is around -120c I think. It absorbs a huge amount of heat from the combustion chambers therefore theoretically cancelling out the extra heat produced by combusting the effectivley larger fuel/oxygen charge you get when using it.

    Yeah I believe you need a fair bit of current at some ridiculously high frequency to seperate the hydrogen, although the amount of energy produced from the seperated hydrogen is very little compared to what was used to produce it. Although some guy managed to do it a few years back using "zero point energy" ? or something like that, and could produce a lot of hydrogen with very little power (water powered cars anyone" but he disapeared ...HMMM

    But I've gone off on a completly different tangent so I'll shut up now.

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    • #17
      Found this- As an example, 1000 watts of energy would be consumed to break water down to its molecular state and only 900 watts of usable gas energy would be yielded from the process.

      Not as inefficient as I thought.

      http://www.genesisworldenergy.org/technology.htm
      "I spent most of my money on Scotch, women and cigarettes. The rest I just wasted"

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      • #18
        2-strokes seem more temprature tempremental then 4-strokes. My old cagiva 125 would just top 100mph at night in cool conditions but in day time summer heat would just hit 85mph.
        Ryan, ORIGIN: Irish - from the Gaelic 'Rigan' meaning 'Little King'. A Common Surname since the early 1940s. CHARACTERISTCS: Compassionate, Loyal and Trustworthy. Communicative, Often a good listener and equally a good Advisor. A great Purswader. Enjoys Close Relationships. A Caring Friend.

        Knowledge Comes and Goes, But Wisdom Stays and Grows, Thats me (yeh right)
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        • #19
          From a chemist....me. As you excite molecules (heat them up) the distance between two molecules increases. Thus in a given volume there are less molecules, or less oxygen in a given volume. Yes our ECU's can compensate the mixture, but if there is less O2 in a given volume that means less fuel, which then potentially means less HP's. The end
          http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...hug/Arnold.gif

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          • #20
            Originally posted by twojizzloads
            The end
            Yup

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            • #21
              I thinking more on just humidity changes because I live on the coast and there are days when the bike is just mental for power but we get big swings in temp, humidity and barometric pressure and I was just trying to figure the max power combo and because of the large humidity changes some times its difficult to figure just what is doing what. Cool and high barometric pressure definately increase power but just wanted the definative answer on wheather some humidity would increase power in the mix or, humid air which is higher in density didnt know if the engine could use the moisture to create steem and thus higher cylinder pressure or not or wheather the water molicules occupied too much space and deprived the cylinder from oxygen thus lowering the available power. I think that asked the right question and now for the chemists out there, or probably I should ask this guestion of a drag racer.

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              • #22
                I think some one mentioned this allready, but it has all to do about density altitude...well at least that is what they call it in the avation field. The hotter and higher you are the less performance you will have. Less dense air el-sucko performance.

                When I was flying you could REALLY tell the difference in the small planes.
                If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Steve TLS
                  I've seen water injection systems, can't remember what the real benefits were, cleaner engine, possibly a cooling effect on the incoming charge and thus increasing it's density?

                  Water injection was big waaay back in the late 70's and early 80's in the automotive high performance world. It worked well. It died a quiet death though when everyone found that it cause corrosion in the cylinders. This of course screwed up the rings in a short time and wah la, its time to rebuild the engine.
                  "The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

                  Colonel Jeff Cooper, in "The Art of the Rifle"

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Steve TLS
                    Unlike NO2 which gives off it's oxygen molecules at a certain temperature
                    i thought the point of using NO2 was when it went from gas to liquid it became super cool, thus doing the same affect we've been talking about...i thought it still remained inert (not giving O2 molecules to burn) through the whole process though

                    -

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                    • #25
                      I thought that when NO2 reaches a certain temperature, like in an engine then the nitrogen broke off of the molecule and release the 02 (oxygen) off and there is more air in your engine add more fuel and boom (literally) more power

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                      • #26
                        actually the no2 vaporizes and acts directly as an oxidizer. its stays no2 until it reacts with the extra gas.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Steve TLS
                          Found this- As an example, 1000 watts of energy would be consumed to break water down to its molecular state and only 900 watts of usable gas energy would be yielded from the process.

                          Not as inefficient as I thought.

                          http://www.genesisworldenergy.org/technology.htm


                          Thats pretty cool.... Its funny when you think about it. Hydrogen is one of the most flammable gasses along with pure oxygen = boooom. But as water totally safe and inert. Perfect fuel if they could figure how to easilly seperate them

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                          • #28
                            Doug,

                            If I enter 0% humidity in the correction part of my dyno software leaving every thing else as SAE std correction = 1 if I enter 100% humidity and everything else at standard correction. it = 1.04 (96.2% not 100)

                            50% humidity = 1.02 (98%). I'm hoping it is correct, I did my best in taking the SAE correction formula and getting it to run in VB.
                            "I spent most of my money on Scotch, women and cigarettes. The rest I just wasted"

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by rupes
                              Thats pretty cool.... Its funny when you think about it. Hydrogen is one of the most flammable gasses along with pure oxygen = boooom. But as water totally safe and inert. Perfect fuel if they could figure how to easilly seperate them
                              actually you can easily seperate them, run an a cathode and and athode in them, process is called electroysis (sp?)

                              the one that's really gonna tickle your pickle, is table salt. Sodium and Chlorine. Two chemicals that will kill you if you eat them alone...but they form the salt you eat at dinner...go fig

                              -

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                              • #30
                                Fuji Speedway's straight:
                                summer = 260+kph
                                winter = 270+kph

                                I'm a lot colder in the winter (read: denser) and it hurts more when I crash !
                                Jack DeAndrade
                                Bad Karma Racing

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