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I'm putting this in the trackdays section since I am comparing the two AT THE TRACK.
*Disclaimer* I LOVE my TL and have been a proud and vocal member of our cult since 2006....
If you don't want to read - cliff notes at the bottom....
My background: I have been a licensed motorcycle rider for 20 years (I'm 37 right now). I have been on sportbikes for 15, track riding for 4 years (5 different tracks and counting) and this year was my first season of club racing for the LRRS (CCS) series at New Hampshire Motor Speedway. I race an '05 SV650 in the superbike and thunderbike classes. Mods for the SV include - Penske double clicker, GSXR front end (set up for my weight) with radial brakes, EBC HH pads, brembo master, steel brake lines, steering damper, full Micron system, K&N filter, custom tuned, Woodcraft rear sets, Pirelli race rubber.
Mods for the TL (performance wise) - Ohlins rear, reworked fork internals (set up for my weight), aftermarket damper, Full Ti-Force, K&N, custom tune, Pazzo levers, steel brake lines....
I have done numerous trackdays at NHMS and NJMP with the TL. I didn't start riding the SV until April of this year....
I had Van's risers on the bike since I bought her in 2006.....
I changed back to stock seat height early this year (so the wife could ride with me).....
This happened at NJMP on 9/26/10.
This is my story:
I decided this past winter since I bought the race bike I would only track the TL on special occasions since she was going to be my main street ride. The 2 day event at NJMP saw me on thunderbolt on Sunday and Lightning on Monday. I figured this would be a spectacular time to get the old girl back into her track attire and attack the 2 fast tracks. I had brought the SV to Thunderbolt earlier in the season to test out the high speed antics, but didn't feel fulfilled since I has NHMS gearing on it.
Saturday night - I pull into the Thunderbolt track. I help the Pirelli vendor sell and mount tires at the trackday events, so it was business as usual...setting up the tire changing machine, mounting, balancing and selling tires, bullshitting....I was GLOATING to all my trackday friends about how awesome the TL is at this track and with the added power (compared to my SV), I was going to have a BLAST!
Sunday morning I wake up, get downstairs to the garage and go to work...mounting, balancing, selling....As things slowed down, it got to be that time for me to hit the track! I was SO amped up! I get dressed and fire her up....The sound was intoxicating! It seemed like the whole garage looked over as she roared to life and was warming up!!!
I'm a few minutes behind since I wanted to go out last since I haven't been on the track yet....Just wanted to get my body warmed up, try to get a rythem and get used to all that power again!!!
I roll out to the starter, he sees an opening and I'm off! Rolling down pit out with a grin ear to ear!!! I do a few warm up laps, get some heat in the brakes and tires......and I'm off!
I hit the straight full throttle.....go to brake for turn 1....HOLY S*&T...PLEASE STOP!!!!! I forgot the brakes aren't even CLOSE to the race bike set-up! So needless to say, I blow turn 1 and go wide....which in turn screwed me for 2...I get back on the line and set up for the chicane (right/left/right)....this is where I first felt it....I get my body into position and throw her into the right hand turn.....nope, not leaned enough, more bar input, MORE bar input, hit the apex, slide my body to the left, whack the throttle to get her to stand up, throw her left, MORE bar input...MORE bar input....slide my body right, whack the throttle, throw her down to the right again and power out to the next right hander.....
My body just didn't feel right....I know it's not the race bike, but it didn't feel like the good 'ole girl of old either....I finsh the lap racking my brain trying to figure out what was going on....The turns weren't comforable, she didn't feel stable mid corner, and was so much harder to turn.....On top of that, I felt like I was sliding all over the seat....
I do one more hot lap to make sure it just wasn't in my head...same results...At this point, I'm not happy and I pit in to make adjustments.
I raised the rearsets to see if would keep my body 'planted' a little better, gave her a little more compression (she was diving under hard braking), and raised the rearend 2mm to try to get her to turn in a little easier....
I go out for the next session and she feels no better...I come in after just 6 laps. At this point I am NOT having fun (except when I am on the throttle)....
I keep trying small adjustments throughout the day trying to get her to feel okay....I gave up after 6 sessions...
I was sitting that night replaying everything I did and how it felt. Then...BOOM...it hit me! I didn't have the risers on anymore.....It all made sense....Due to the angle of the subframe, the risers force your nuts in the tank...that was the 'sliding' I felt...I was actually able to move around on the seat (which I didn't like)...It also threw off my body position...when the risers were on, as soon as you slide from one side to the other, you're kind of locked into the tank, the additional movement makes you actually think about the placement of your butt (front to back on the seat) along with trying to get my feet, legs, and upper body right....also, when you're on the back of the seat, the pegs feel very forward and I felt VERY low (the adjustment to the rearset back and up helped, but still didn't feel right).
Although I faked it and said how awesome the TL was to ride on the track, it sucked....Not only because I am now used to a bike that's 100 pounds lighter and stops 1,000 better, but also because the risers did so many positive things for her ON THE TRACK.....and now they are gone and I am not putting them back on....
In closing, I will say it again....I LOVE my TL and she is a FANTASTIC street bike, and I won't get rid of her, but she will never see the track again...I was so disappointed....
Cliff notes:
Risers - keep your nuts in the tank (good thing)
gave ME and more stable corner feel which I'm sure is due to body position
helped keep my body position more consistant
without risers - slid all over the seat
felt very low on the bike
pegs felt forward (even adjusted up and back)
body position felt 'off'
Again - THIS IS JUST MY OPINION...If any trackriders have the opportunity to try a track WITH risers, I think you will be pleasantly suprised!!
*Disclaimer* I LOVE my TL and have been a proud and vocal member of our cult since 2006....
If you don't want to read - cliff notes at the bottom....
My background: I have been a licensed motorcycle rider for 20 years (I'm 37 right now). I have been on sportbikes for 15, track riding for 4 years (5 different tracks and counting) and this year was my first season of club racing for the LRRS (CCS) series at New Hampshire Motor Speedway. I race an '05 SV650 in the superbike and thunderbike classes. Mods for the SV include - Penske double clicker, GSXR front end (set up for my weight) with radial brakes, EBC HH pads, brembo master, steel brake lines, steering damper, full Micron system, K&N filter, custom tuned, Woodcraft rear sets, Pirelli race rubber.
Mods for the TL (performance wise) - Ohlins rear, reworked fork internals (set up for my weight), aftermarket damper, Full Ti-Force, K&N, custom tune, Pazzo levers, steel brake lines....
I have done numerous trackdays at NHMS and NJMP with the TL. I didn't start riding the SV until April of this year....
I had Van's risers on the bike since I bought her in 2006.....
I changed back to stock seat height early this year (so the wife could ride with me).....
This happened at NJMP on 9/26/10.
This is my story:
I decided this past winter since I bought the race bike I would only track the TL on special occasions since she was going to be my main street ride. The 2 day event at NJMP saw me on thunderbolt on Sunday and Lightning on Monday. I figured this would be a spectacular time to get the old girl back into her track attire and attack the 2 fast tracks. I had brought the SV to Thunderbolt earlier in the season to test out the high speed antics, but didn't feel fulfilled since I has NHMS gearing on it.
Saturday night - I pull into the Thunderbolt track. I help the Pirelli vendor sell and mount tires at the trackday events, so it was business as usual...setting up the tire changing machine, mounting, balancing and selling tires, bullshitting....I was GLOATING to all my trackday friends about how awesome the TL is at this track and with the added power (compared to my SV), I was going to have a BLAST!
Sunday morning I wake up, get downstairs to the garage and go to work...mounting, balancing, selling....As things slowed down, it got to be that time for me to hit the track! I was SO amped up! I get dressed and fire her up....The sound was intoxicating! It seemed like the whole garage looked over as she roared to life and was warming up!!!
I'm a few minutes behind since I wanted to go out last since I haven't been on the track yet....Just wanted to get my body warmed up, try to get a rythem and get used to all that power again!!!
I roll out to the starter, he sees an opening and I'm off! Rolling down pit out with a grin ear to ear!!! I do a few warm up laps, get some heat in the brakes and tires......and I'm off!
I hit the straight full throttle.....go to brake for turn 1....HOLY S*&T...PLEASE STOP!!!!! I forgot the brakes aren't even CLOSE to the race bike set-up! So needless to say, I blow turn 1 and go wide....which in turn screwed me for 2...I get back on the line and set up for the chicane (right/left/right)....this is where I first felt it....I get my body into position and throw her into the right hand turn.....nope, not leaned enough, more bar input, MORE bar input, hit the apex, slide my body to the left, whack the throttle to get her to stand up, throw her left, MORE bar input...MORE bar input....slide my body right, whack the throttle, throw her down to the right again and power out to the next right hander.....
My body just didn't feel right....I know it's not the race bike, but it didn't feel like the good 'ole girl of old either....I finsh the lap racking my brain trying to figure out what was going on....The turns weren't comforable, she didn't feel stable mid corner, and was so much harder to turn.....On top of that, I felt like I was sliding all over the seat....
I do one more hot lap to make sure it just wasn't in my head...same results...At this point, I'm not happy and I pit in to make adjustments.
I raised the rearsets to see if would keep my body 'planted' a little better, gave her a little more compression (she was diving under hard braking), and raised the rearend 2mm to try to get her to turn in a little easier....
I go out for the next session and she feels no better...I come in after just 6 laps. At this point I am NOT having fun (except when I am on the throttle)....
I keep trying small adjustments throughout the day trying to get her to feel okay....I gave up after 6 sessions...
I was sitting that night replaying everything I did and how it felt. Then...BOOM...it hit me! I didn't have the risers on anymore.....It all made sense....Due to the angle of the subframe, the risers force your nuts in the tank...that was the 'sliding' I felt...I was actually able to move around on the seat (which I didn't like)...It also threw off my body position...when the risers were on, as soon as you slide from one side to the other, you're kind of locked into the tank, the additional movement makes you actually think about the placement of your butt (front to back on the seat) along with trying to get my feet, legs, and upper body right....also, when you're on the back of the seat, the pegs feel very forward and I felt VERY low (the adjustment to the rearset back and up helped, but still didn't feel right).
Although I faked it and said how awesome the TL was to ride on the track, it sucked....Not only because I am now used to a bike that's 100 pounds lighter and stops 1,000 better, but also because the risers did so many positive things for her ON THE TRACK.....and now they are gone and I am not putting them back on....
In closing, I will say it again....I LOVE my TL and she is a FANTASTIC street bike, and I won't get rid of her, but she will never see the track again...I was so disappointed....
Cliff notes:
Risers - keep your nuts in the tank (good thing)
gave ME and more stable corner feel which I'm sure is due to body position
helped keep my body position more consistant
without risers - slid all over the seat
felt very low on the bike
pegs felt forward (even adjusted up and back)
body position felt 'off'
Again - THIS IS JUST MY OPINION...If any trackriders have the opportunity to try a track WITH risers, I think you will be pleasantly suprised!!
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